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Pitbull Owners Survival Guide

« Arkansas Dog Group To File Federal Suit Challenging BSL | Main | Surrender For Destruction - A Canadian Dog Owner's Nightmare »

September 20, 2007



OK, I'm rather busy right now preparing for the Appeal, doing other research and working on a big new project.

It's also not my habit to try to reason with trolls, however, I'll make one and only one exception in this case.

1. No new school boards were to be created. Read the platform.

2. The NDP blip, the one time they were elected, resulted in the destruction of public services including healthcare and financial ruin for Ontario. They left a $40 billion debt behind. That's why they are unlikely to be in power again. This does not mean they aren't great in Opposition, they are and I'm glad to see they picked up a couple more seats.

3. If you doubt the info about the NDP, I suggest you read the party platform. The reason we don't have property rights in Canada is that the NDP refused to sign off on it - they are against private ownership of property. This is not a secret.

4. If you get your information from press releases, or the media in general, you know very little about a subject.

5. Your name does not appear in the accounts as a contributor to the Ontario legal fund, either in the Banned Aid record or in the lawyer's record. If there's been a mistake, you should attempt to correct it.

6. The reason McGuinty got in again is nicely illustrated by your comments - most people don't follow the issues or do any independent research. They fall prey to propaganda and fear-mongering. Those in the know advocated exactly what you have said - if in a strong NDP riding, vote NDP, otherwise vote PC.

7. Like many who don't drill down to get information unfiltered by media interests, you are likely also unaware that the Greens, who took 8% of the popular vote, are the most right-wing party on the list. Read the platform.

8. The comments about education show a lack of understanding of how badly the public system has deteriorated. Test scores are higher? They made the tests easier. It's all about the teachers these days, not the students, which is painfully obvious when you consider the lack of basic grammar, arithmetic, science or research skills today's young people exhibit.

Now, I could be nasty and say something such as "I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with the unarmed" but personal attacks are really not my style.

I could also say it's time for a spritz of Troll-B-Gone but that's up to the proprietor of this fine establishment.

Now I really must get back to work because my civil rights are calling. So are yours.

D. Shields

Quote " Some twit, who hasn't given a dime to the Ontario legal challenge by the way, is posting BS about the 'hidden right wing agenda' behind fighting BSL."

My family donated to the court challenge several years ago. Not enough $$ for your liking? Too bad.
You throw insults around a lot don't you? Do you find it gets you your own way? I'm not intimidated by you or your silly-ass, arrogant observations. I just consider the source & laugh.
Quote:"I'd sure like to see some of these 'right wing (ha ha that's Democratic to you Americans) think tanks that are supposedly linked through anti-BSL and other dog blogs in Canada. Must have missed that."

'Guess you must have. I didn't.

Canada isn't America, in case you hadn't noticed. Having more than 2 political parties proves that Democracy means many things in Canada, & I think you just proved that you are more at home with U.S. politics than you are with Canadian politics. Black & White, A or B -just keep it SIMPLE?

So why don't you move there?

Quote:"The NDP members are great, I know a few of them personally as I do PC members."

Apparently you don't think they are 'Great' enough to admit that they stood up for anti-BSL before anybody else did? And loudly, in public at the hearings.

Quote:"Would I vote for them? Not likely - I'm into sound fiscal policies, property ownership, being able to leave my estate to a person rather than the government and most of all, I like the government to stay out of my face as much as possible."

What twaddle is this? No body in any party has ever suggested that the Gov. obtain your estate. The Conservatives did put a nice hole in people's(seniors') estates via taxing income trusts though.. That wasn't in your face??

Quote:" Of course, if you haven't even a basic understanding of how politics works in Ontario, you can't be expected to know that the NDP hasn't got a snowball's chance of winning in the province for years, if not decades to come."

Funny thing..I seem to remember that the NDP formed the Ontario Government about a decade ago. Did you sleep through that?

It doesn't matter if the NDP can't form a majority Gov. in Ontario in 2007! Every seat the Liberals lost, or the Conservatives or NDP gained counted. Don't you get the electoral system? To vote Conservative in a predominantly NDP riding would have likely gotten the Liberal elected.

Mr. Tory fired several warning shots into his own foot days before the election with his 'Full Funding for All Religious Schools' platform. The election was his to lose at that point, & he did lose on that platform.

Quote:"Most dog owners are 'left of centre'? I'd like to see some backup for that statement."

I said that most banned dog owners that 'I know', are not sporting pin stripe suits while lunching at the yacht club. They did not in the end vote for The Conservative Party. Some gave it serious consideration, but those who have kids, or grandkids in the existing school systems (both schools systems + French immersion)couldn't in good conscience, do it.

Seniors saw John Tory's 'great plan' as a serious intrusion to their tax dollars & bank accounts.
(Ontario has 4 school boards now:
Public English, Public French, Catholic English, & Catholic French) All 4 boards receive public funding until the end of high school (Gr.12) So how many boards do you want to support? 15? 25? 50? -keeping in mind that to be 'completely equal' with the present 4 boards, as John Tory stated, it would require elections, school boards, staff, buildings as well as the basic up keep, & educational funding for books & course outlines that comply with religious viewpoints. (who's gonna write, print, & publish them?)

Yes I like Government out of my face too, & even better out of my bank account. Since this whole mess would be dumped on local governments as school taxes are now, (& as BSL enforcement was downloaded) in the form of higher local house taxes...Well, You figure out why people didn't vote Conservative, or perhaps they couldn't figure out the lesser of 2 evils & just did not vote at all?

The dogs & the owners were/are what is important, not some people stumping for their fav. political ideology. IMHO this was just a betrayal of them.

If you want to blame somebody for the Liberals being back in power (you seem to like assigning blame!)blame John Tory & his platform! It put off many life long Conservatives, never mind people who just wanted something better.
(And in case you had not noticed, Bill 132/DOLA were not a big issue for most people. It should have been for all dog owners, & civil libertarians (see: Loony Left), but I guess some folks were just too busy having contests about who could pee higher on the pole to get that message out to the 'rabble'?)


While I would be unlikely to vote NDP for a number of reasons, if they were a serious contender in the recent election and had a good chance of getting rid of McGuinty, I would have voted for them.

But they weren't, so I didn't.

Get it? It wasn't about ideology, it was about getting rid of McGuinty.


Most dog owners are 'left of centre'? I'd like to see some backup for that statement.

The results of the Ontario general election in terms of percentage of popular vote:

Liberals 42.2%
Conservative 31.6%
NDP 16.8%

The rest of the votes went to fringe parties (9 in total) and independents. (source: Elections Ontario)

What this shows is that despite the major campaign gaffe by the PCs (inclusive public education) they were still only 10% behind the Liberals in popular support. The NDP had about half the vote share of the PCs.

This nicely illustrates the fact that, if you really wanted to dump McGuinty, your best bet was to vote PC.

With the lowest turnout in Ontario history at just over 50% it appears that not enough people overall wanted to turf McGuinty badly enough to show up to vote.

For our American friends, I'd like to emphasize that what Canadians call 'right wing' would make you laugh out loud. The Conservative parties in Canada are roughly equivalent, although slighly left of your Democrats. The Liberals are not 'left of centre', unless that means dictatorial policies and removal of power and rights from citizens. I call that right wing, myself. The NDP are close to communist in their outlook which I'm sure some of their supporters who have never actually read the party platform would be surprised to learn.

Just to clear a couple of things up.


Barb, are you allowing trolls again? We seem to have one here.

Some twit, who hasn't given a dime to the Ontario legal challenge by the way, is posting BS about the 'hidden right wing agenda' behind fighting BSL.

I'd sure like to see some of these 'right wing (ha ha that's Democratic to you Americans) think tanks that are supposedly linked through anti-BSL and other dog blogs in Canada. Must have missed that.

Of course, if you haven't even a basic understanding of how politics works in Ontario, you can't be expected to know that the NDP hasn't got a snowball's chance of winning in the province for years, if not decades to come.

The NDP members are great, I know a few of them personally as I do PC members.

Would I vote for them? Not likely - I'm into sound fiscal policies, property ownership, being able to leave my estate to a person rather than the government and most of all, I like the government to stay out of my face as much as possible.

Ah well, whatever. That's my last word on trolls posting on DP.

D. Shields

The provincial election is over, & Unfortunately the Liberals won -handily thanks in large part to The Conservative leader John Tory scaring the daylights out of many voters who had been up to that point, willing to vote Conservative.

I would like to thank the moderator for pointing out to U.S. readers that Canada & the Provinces do have more than 2 political parties, & that it is quite possible to vote against the Liberals & win & not vote Conservative.

I would also like to mention that I have been doing a little reading on our Canadian anti-BSL group web sites. It came as not a great surprise in most all cases that these sites link & refer to Right, & Right of Right-wing blogs & web sites. (and as I mentioned, there is more than one way to boot out a Liberal in Canada.)

The Federal Conservative Party has not a lot to do with it's Provincial counterpart, but there were links to it as well as an assortment of right wing think tanks, & neo-conservative bluster blogs.

Most of the banned dog owners, & anti-BSL People (not pro or semi-pro dog politicians)are Not right-wing people. Most of them that i know are to some degree left of center, & vote that way. The New Democratic Party member Peter Kormos came out swinging hard at BSL/DOLA & Liberals long before the Conservatives had uttered a word of criticism of BSL. The NDP came out as a party against BSL when only isolated Conservative members only spoke as individuals.

Well now that I understand that to be a politically correct anti-BSL person I must vote Conservative, Federally, Provincially & Locally. I must read & believe in right wing dogma, & physical & international policies. I must believe that global warming is a fairy tale.

I think that we should also note that at least in Canada, much of the 'Official' anti-BSL rhetoric had a lot more to do with pushing politics & agendas than it ever had to do with dogs & fairness!
(Well doesn't it always?)

As far as I'm concerned, the subjects of BSL/DOLA in Ontario are CLOSED forever in my home! I will never waste my time again with it or the people who abused it for potential political ends.

"The more I see of people, the more I admire my dog".

D. Shields

Mr. Tory is now backtracking on his full funding platform. Could it be the People have spoken, & he listened? And that makes a nice change from McGuinty,..& you. O.K., maybe the rest of Ontario can get behind him now.

To paraphrase John Tory on Caledonia he; 'will charge & remove anyone guilty of trespassing'. So unless the Federal Government finds against the Treaty (meaning that they would actually have to make a ruling on it) then he is in Exactly the same position as McGuinty. Does that disappoint you? It is truly a Custer-Buster!

Interesting how you have changed your signature to 'Caveat'? Are you personally an organization now? Posters are decreasing,& it must be very lonely talking to yourself.

Why would you draw conclusions about me? I am anti-religion?? I think I did mention that my daughter attended a Christian School for 3 years. ( at Our cost, Not yours) I have never met you, or spoken to you, not do I care to. I am comfortable enough in my faith to not find other faiths lacking. I'm simply not happy with funding & accomodating 20, 30 or 40 faiths into one school system. I can draw from what you say that you are something of a bigot yourself when you continually make eronious conclusions about others because they don't agree with you 24/7 & 100% of the time. I find it objectionable when a person climbs on the pulpit & invokes 'faith' when they are really objecting to something on a purely personal basis, not a religious one.

If you had even a smattering of interest in Canadian history you would know the history behind the Grande River Treaty, & Ipperwash.

Quote:"May 31, 2007:
Justice Sidney Linden, commissioner of the inquiry, rules that the OPP, the government of then Ontario Premier Mike Harris and the federal government all bear responsibility for events that led to Dudley George's death." Unquote

The fact is that Native Treaties have no relevance to Bill 132 & DOLA. So unless this was another attempt at finger waggling, why bring it up on your Anti-BSL web site? Unless this was just you 'stirring it up again'? Or perhaps a few more of your own lil' bias's crept into this?


Ms Shields is ranting inanely again and revealing her bigotry against religious people and lack of factual information..ho hum.

It was a police officer who shot the protestor - not the government.

Get your facts straight, kiddo. You won't find them in the headlines.

My bias is against the McGuinty Liberals. How astute of you to notice. They are, hands down, the most incompetent, arrogant and destructive government in the history of Ontario.

Speaking of discrimination and bloodshed, what the hell do you think their 'pit bull' ban is?

Check out our candidate interviews at Wag the Dog. You'll see the Fiberals are still toeing the party line, using a cut-and-paste response which trumpets their pride and satisfaction with the dog ownership ban.

It's a no-brainer.

A vote for McGuinty is a vote against dog ownership.

As McGuinty likes to say: "The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour".

No thanks, Dalton. Pack it up and take it somewhere else.

Teri Jo

Unbelievable? I pray to God that I am Misunderstanding this whole mess.
Is there an organized effort to kill family pets in America? If this is actual happening who instigated it?

D. Shields

Talk about 'not clued in to things".. I did visit the Caveat web site, & saw a little piece written about "Caledonia & the land claims'.

The original land claim gives the Mohawk/Haudensaunee people the land 6 miles on either side of the Grande River. Since the Grande River is now encased in rocks & concrete it doesn't shift as the Mississippi River often does. So it ought not to be rocket science to decide what the boundaries are.
(Except that this is a Federal Matter, & Not Provincial & it's been on the back burner, without any heat for about 300 years!)

So if you wish to go after a culprit in this, maybe go after your Federal Party of Choice... like your bias isn't obvious, the Federal Conservative Party.. who ought to be solving this matter now?

Way to Go Caveat! P*** Off Native People, Meti People, none-status people & anyone with a degree of sympathy toward the apathy & footdragging on Legitimate Land Claims that has lasted since before Confederation.

The previous Ont. Tory Gov. managed to enrage all kinds of people because an unarmed man was shot for no good reason in a legitimate protest. I'm sure if they read your web site, all of these people might be inclined now to vote Fiberal to avoid more bloodshed & intolerance.

And, thanks for that too. It was completely divisive & Unnecessary! :-{

D. Shields

My 'pedestrian' comments stem from the fact that my own kid spent about 50% of her elementary school years in private schools, one of which was a none-denominational Christian school, & one was an alternative school. (Thanks to former Conservative Premier Mike Harris who decided to cut back on art, music, creative writing, & access to school libraries. Yes yes, all good medicine must taste Bad, & any school that is enjoyable for students cannot be doing a good job..or so say the New Puritans, the Conservatives.)

These schools cost only approx. $650.00 to $750.00/month & we Cut Back on other things to pay for them. If people wish to exempt themselves from the Public Education system, for nominal cost they can always do home schooling, as do the majority of people in the U.S. who voice objection to the none-faith based Public Educational system. Of course both these option require sacrifice of time & money.. & few want to cut back on Anything even if this does relate to their faith & their children. - (How odd, since these are the 2 premises that they always seem to start their argument from?)

Secondly the biggest enemies locally are people who hate dogs & owners Because of religion.
Recently a group of these pure, sweet, & Christian super-girls, tried to blackmail another (?less Christan?) girl via their family dog...(if $$$ wasn't forthcoming, they would report the dog & invoke DOLA.)

I am not impressed, & resist the thought that my tax dollars will support that kind of thinking, & further re-enforce the kind of 'specialness' & entitlement that these kinds of people already seem to feel. (These girls showed no remorse, neither did their parents, one of whom threatened to poison the dog because their other little $tunt hadn't worked.)

Interesting that every election we seem to be asked to trade off another vital part of what makes a democracy. This time we can chose to chuck out 'Separation of Church & State' & vote Tory, or we can stick with the Fiberals & abandon the concept of 'Innocent until Proven Guilty'. WoW -what Great Choices! :-{

IMHO, the most pedestrian, self serving, historically & politically IGNORANT platforms are being set forth by the leaders of the 2 main stream parties! Maybe next election we can chose between incarceration without trial, & trial without legal council or jury? Or perhaps we can try out Sharia Law, as the McGuinty bunch wanted? Then I guess we can count ourselves lucky to be able to vote upon the numerous ways to destroy democracy piece by piece?


I see somebody has bought into the Fiberal spin about the religious schools - a minor promise Tory made and intends to keep. Wild, eh?

The kids are already attending the schools. There will be no new boards created. The policy allows some oversight by insisting on accredited teachers, the teaching of the Ontario curriculum and a requirement to write the standardized tests, or it's no dough. Seems like the only fair thing, since we already have over 650,000 kids attending publicly funded faith-based schools in Ontario, aka the Catholic system. McGuinty promised the same thing repeatedly.

He's focusing on it because it's all he's got.

As for the pedestrian comments about not promising to overturn the ban in the middle of a campaign, well duh....

If you think an NDP candidate has a good kick at the can in your riding, vote NDP. If you think the PC candidate can win, vote PC.

It ain't rocket science, although sometimes you have to wonder how clued in the electorate really is.


vote for john tory (pc) oct 10 i emailed him and he replyed saying that he does not support the ban and that it is very inhumain and that he believes the owners are the problem.

Mac`s Gang

I wrote to Conservative leader John Tory about BSL and Bill 132.
You can read the email he sent to me on Mac`s blog.
That is posted all over the Internet.
He has made it very clear where he stands on this issue!
It`s midway in the blog entry.
People MUST vote for the candidate in their respective ridings that can defeat the Liberal.
It doesn`t mean you should vote PC in every riding.
The Liberals must be defeated!

D. Shields

I will Not be voting Liberal, but neither will I be voting Conservative. Many posts on various B.B.'s have extorted the Conservative Party as the answer to our plight. Is a little partisan party politicking showing?

The Ontario Conservative Party not only have Not offered to rescind Bill 132 & DOLA, they have not even mentioned it. They have however mentioned fully funding all religious schools -Yikes! Just what we need! Funding to some of the people in the community that hate dogs & owners the most!
("Man (?not really women?)where created in the image of God", therefore dogs should been seen off of their owners property. Ie: Dogs belong in basements, backyards & on chains because they are Not People..& yadda yadda..)

I really can't afford to fund all the schools from kindergarten to high school for the Creationists, the Snake Kissers, the Woman as Original Sinners, & the Born-Again Dingbats, let alone the schools for all the legitimate main stream religions. So...I'm Not, Not, Not voting Liberal or Conservative!

LeeAnn OReilly

A vote for the Liberal Party in Ontario is a vote AGAINST YOUR RIGHTS as a dog owner.

Vote Liberal Red and your rights are dead.

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